tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post4369421853919677347..comments2024-03-26T12:19:52.801-04:00Comments on Tea at Trianon: Here we go again....elena maria vidalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17129629173535139807noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-33531264179421816882011-09-27T11:32:14.192-04:002011-09-27T11:32:14.192-04:00"resté là" might have been Fersen's ..."resté là" might have been Fersen's usual euphemism for sleeping with a lady. But the words have a grammatical connotation as well, so Fersen might have smudged the phrase himself when thinking of what the words would be able to be construed as in HIS diary.Hans Georg Lundahlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055583255516264955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-19254897829837378742009-08-21T20:10:08.419-04:002009-08-21T20:10:08.419-04:00Exactly. And she had more than one sickly child to...Exactly. And she had more than one sickly child to take care of. They were the main focus of her thoughts. Any normal mother would understand her state of mind.elena maria vidalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17129629173535139807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-12828663143310499342009-08-21T19:56:58.196-04:002009-08-21T19:56:58.196-04:00The Fersen "affair" is all such nonsense...The Fersen "affair" is all such nonsense, I agree! Aside from so much evidence to the contrary, a couple of points in your commentary stick with me. Two words explain it all: A "Mother's Heart." I recall a time when my youngest child became gravely ill with a particularly frightening strain of influenza. Many children passed away from that particular strain. (Thank God, my son gradually recovered.) I have also had several complicated births with ensuing PPD. The above problems are some of the most trying and difficult that can be experienced as a woman. What woman worth her salt would be carrying on an illicit love affaire while circumstances around her children are in a fragile state? It makes me wonder. Are these scoffers mothers??And if they are, have their children ever been seriously ill? Have they suffered complicated deliveries and/or postnatal complications? I've experienced all of the above and cannot even entertain the idea of maintaning an illicit affaire while in such circumstances!!CR Wallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01036793091046528699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-31424236332683953352009-01-14T16:24:00.000-05:002009-01-14T16:24:00.000-05:00Thanks for all this. I now hope this finally puts...Thanks for all this. I now hope this finally puts this absurd affair case to rest! I enjoyed your going over all those points that I had forgotten. Poor MA, she was so misunderstood.Lucy https://www.blogger.com/profile/13600064401395449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-23074940124347798592009-01-14T14:37:00.000-05:002009-01-14T14:37:00.000-05:00Bearded Lady, I am delighted to hear it!Bearded Lady, I am delighted to hear it!elena maria vidalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17129629173535139807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-26065976998967069422009-01-14T14:36:00.000-05:002009-01-14T14:36:00.000-05:00Thank you, Catherine, I appreciate it.Yes, Laura, ...Thank you, Catherine, I appreciate it.<BR/><BR/>Yes, Laura, people don't realize that being the Queen of France was seen as being an almost sacred role, which certainly had been instilled in Marie-Antoinette by her mother. There could not be the slightest risk of the Queen having a child that was not the King's. Bloodline and the Salic law were of the highest importance to them.<BR/><BR/>Glad you enjoyed it, Susan!elena maria vidalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17129629173535139807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-16475909772037553422009-01-13T16:48:00.000-05:002009-01-13T16:48:00.000-05:00Fascinating! I found this very interesting.Fascinating! I found this very interesting.Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-61120446458986896012009-01-13T13:43:00.000-05:002009-01-13T13:43:00.000-05:00I think many people in France were schooled(thanks...I think many people in France were schooled(thanks to the republic) on hatred and dislike of both King Louis XVI and Queen Marie Antoinette. Their Majesties were executed by a republican government. Well if the government did it I am sure it was justified!! Thinking like that ensures nothing but lies and disinformation for future generations. We forget the morals of the 18th century. The assumption that an Archduchess of Austria and reigning Queen of France would carry on with a man outside of marriage is inconceivable. I believe in my heart Her Majesty with all her trials and tribulations knew God called her for something very special in life; I believe she never let Him down.lara77https://www.blogger.com/profile/12595738597369639417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-609088101912788322009-01-12T19:29:00.000-05:002009-01-12T19:29:00.000-05:00oh I love a good rumor debunked! Great post. I nev...oh I love a good rumor debunked! Great post. I never believed the rumor until I read Antonia Fraser's biography. Then I started to have my doubts. Now I am back to not believing it again...(thanks to your post.)Bearded Ladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06182921236123895352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-79546155558868458802009-01-12T17:21:00.000-05:002009-01-12T17:21:00.000-05:00Great post, Elena! I took the liberty of linking t...Great post, Elena! I took the liberty of linking to it.Catherine Delorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08737845394982542863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-81542275521747987772009-01-12T16:08:00.000-05:002009-01-12T16:08:00.000-05:00Thank you, Sophie, and welcome. Yes, Count von Fer...Thank you, Sophie, and welcome. Yes, Count von Fersen was an absolutely fascinating person in his own right, quite apart from his friendship with the French Royal Family. He was deeply involved in Swedish politics and then went to America and had many adventures. He had many, many ladies in his life. Much of his activity in France during the Revolution was on behalf of his sovereign. More than any other European monarch, King Gustavus worked to help Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette, both of whom he greatly admired and respected.elena maria vidalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17129629173535139807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-70551186367319615962009-01-12T15:58:00.000-05:002009-01-12T15:58:00.000-05:00Dear Elena,I often read your posts about MA and he...Dear Elena,<BR/><BR/>I often read your posts about MA and her family. I absolutely agree with you, she was such a loyal and honest lady.<BR/>Although, Coppola wants to earn money, so she must sell her films, just like the writers of these kinds of biographies. And what do people like? The perfect lives of perfect women? A story of intelligent, kind people without any sex scene, blood or popular music? Definitely not. So, she must make stupid idiots from MA and Louis, and a handsome, but unintelligent and boring guy from Fersen.<BR/>I'm very sad, because the REAL Fersen - I mean, he was a soldier and a Swedish poltitician, not the main character of this boring "love (?) story" - is as interesting for me as the real MA, or the real Louis... but Coppola and her company wants a lot of money, not good stories :(<BR/>But there are better history films/series, for example the life of John Adams, which won lots of awards, or 'Chouans!' with Sophie Marceau. This is my favourite.<BR/><BR/>Well, many thanks for your wonderful articles!<BR/><BR/><BR/>Sophie (from Hungary)<BR/><BR/>- And sorry for my English...Zsófiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08703741447723209977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-28934764355572331972009-01-12T13:53:00.000-05:002009-01-12T13:53:00.000-05:00I would love to see your play, Gareth. And I seem ...I would love to see your play, Gareth. And I seem to recall that at one point the Comte de Saint-Priest was a retainer of the Comte de Provence, which would also explain a great deal about the vicious rumors aimed at Marie-Antoinette. The rumors also had the intention of casting doubt upon the paternity of her children, which would have benefited Provence. I wish that people would realize that at Versailles EVERYTHING was political.elena maria vidalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17129629173535139807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-74246750364631169632009-01-12T13:21:00.000-05:002009-01-12T13:21:00.000-05:00I absolutely agree with what you've written and it...I absolutely agree with what you've written and it's very funny you mention the St.-Priest memoirs. In my play, "The Audacity of Ideas," I dealt with the comte's version of events. He is a character in the play and his memoirs are absconded from his maison, ending up in the hands of the comte d'Artois and duchesse de Polignac. Of course, that is dramatic license, used to allow them the on-stage opportunity to deny his allegations, precisely for the hypothesis given here - that he was covering up the pain that Fersen, a former friend, had betrayed him with Madame de St.-Priest. St.-Priest is the cited "well-connected courtier" in many modern accounts of the Fersen affair, but in reality, he was neither well-connected nor even particularly liked by the queen's clique.Gareth Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09102113677858015813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-19566578474207019832009-01-12T12:08:00.000-05:002009-01-12T12:08:00.000-05:00Great points, Ninon. The pornographic pamphlets us...Great points, Ninon. The pornographic pamphlets usually showed the queen with her brother-in-law Artois or with Madame de Polignac (or both). Then they made up the calumny that the Queen had hurt her son. Her enemies were grasping at straws, and if the Fersen story were a straw that they thought was worth grasping, they would have made hay with it. They were certainly willing to invent things in order to discredit her.elena maria vidalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17129629173535139807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-29325702175510387932009-01-12T11:37:00.000-05:002009-01-12T11:37:00.000-05:00I'm glad to have read this post, it's interesting....I'm glad to have read this post, it's interesting. I've never had any illusions about this affair, especially when reading Antonia Fraser's biography of M-A which left me quite uncertain if there even ever was a love affair. I thought it just was a thing that was exaggerated later on. That's why I also got a bit surprised when I read a critic of Sofia Coppola's movie where the writer claimed that Coppola made Marie-Antoinette's and Fersen's love affair seem dull when it was said to be "hotter than the French revolution"(?!). I've never got such a picture really, even in the history book in school they just mentioned that Fersen may have been Marie-Antoinette's lover.<BR/>And as you said, surely there would have been several pamphlets if it was suspected?<BR/><BR/>Well, but... people always love to speculate. Especially when there is sex involved.Ninonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06990998892964365748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-71214296934351026422009-01-12T09:59:00.000-05:002009-01-12T09:59:00.000-05:00So true. Tell me about it.=0 Unfortunately, the la...So true. Tell me about it.=0 Unfortunately, the latest film and recent pop biographies do not help the matter.elena maria vidalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17129629173535139807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534539169157708222.post-85391254302930052632009-01-12T09:46:00.000-05:002009-01-12T09:46:00.000-05:00+JMJ+The weird thing, Elena, is that they seem to ...+JMJ+<BR/><BR/>The weird thing, Elena, is that they seem to <I>want</I> Marie Antoinette to have had an affair with Fersen. It's almost an emotional thing for them. =SEnbrethilielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03414765854670926854noreply@blogger.com